03.31.2018 N America Witnesses- Q&A Transcript


Q. 1) The pictures you have taken. Will they be available on the web site? And can we copy them? And print them?

A)Brad Gault – I don’t know that we have discussed putting pictures into the public domain. That’s certainly something that we can consider together. We have never discussed it, we’ve never made a decision one way or the other on it.  So I guess we can take that under advisement. Bob is saying that we probably should get permission from Mauricio to put those into the public domain. There is a little bit of a worry when you do that.

Q. 2)The question I have, actually it is kind of addressed to Bob because I don’t know how many times I have listened to it. I’m doing a script on both of them as a matter-of-fact. But the question I have is: Do you know how much time we have to build the temple? I heard that you maybe have a way they calculate the day or the date. I don’t have any idea but, I’d like to know how much time we’ve got to prepare.

A) Bob Moore – I have no idea. Except that it’s not long. But I don’t know.

Moderator: I might just add to that. In view of the fact that our next breath could be our last, we may not have a lot of time.

Q. 3) On the Internet there was a rebuttal to what you gentlemen have witnessed and testified of. I don’t know if you’ve saw that rebuttal through brother Jim McKay. And anyway I would like someone to answer parts of that rebuttal. Hopefully you have seen it. Have you seen that some of you up there? Seen some of that rebuttal? Because he makes the argument of some of the characters being from a man by the name of Hofmann who had plagiarized or created these plates. And so I would like to hear some answers about that. And also there were four swords shown. Three of them looked very similar, although they were different conditions you might saw and there was one that didn’t look like the others at all. And I just wondered about that two (be)cause that was all part of that rebuttal.

A)  Bob Moore – I will respond to the Hofmann transcript or forgery, however you want to term that. We prepared a statement for that. And I will let another, perhaps Sam respond to the swords, The Hoffman transcript does not match the entire back plate of the Golden Plates that we examined. We compared the two and testify that some portions are the same and some are very different. Since the Hofmann transcript agrees with only a portion of the back plate it does not prove that the Golden Plates of which we testify are forged. We will place a copy of the transcript, marking the characters that are the same as the back plate on the site secondinvitation.org. Note that the seal at the bottom right looks the same, but is significantly different than the seal on the back plate.

A) Sam Gould – The question of the sword. The first one that was shown that had kind of a white backdrop, I want you to understand that I had that conversation, a very detailed conversation with Mauricio, under the speaking of tongues and the interpretation of tongues between the two of us. And so I know of a surety by the Holy Spirit that what he said was true. And that is that he does not know how that first sword picture entered into the letter. That he did not put it there, it was not the sword. And indeed it is not a Hebrew sword. The one that was considered that looked like it was Hebrew and it was kind of cut short and it shows at a different angle, the sword blades are in opposite. And one sword is cut short to make it look like it is not the same sword. It is the same sword. It was before it was cleaned up by Mauricio and his helpers. The details of cleaning up that sword were shared with me. The sword was not in their possession when we were there. And so I can only trust what the Holy Spirit had given on that. The sword had begin to deteriorate. And as you know it is a bimetallic structure. Gold and steel, Steel acts as a cathode and the gold is an anode and so that electrolysis takes place that actually eats the metal of the sword. And so it was put back into Moroni’s protection. Mauricio does not know how that first sword picture got into the document that was sent to The Church of Christ. It was not his doing and we can not speculate how that happened. But that was not the sword of Laban. In the hilt of the sword there are three letters pressed in it. They are Hebrew letters. And they are the letters for Lathan or Lavan (??)  Showing that it is Laban’s sword. Thank You.

Q. 4) This is to Bob. I was wondering if Mauricio was able to visit the plates for years before like Joseph Jr. did. I think he visited three years and then picked them up the forth year. And I wondered if Mauricio did that.

A)  Bob Moore – Mauricio received the plates on April 6th, 2007 when he went to the hill. He was driving back to where his family was, was sleepy and stopped in his home town. So he knew that it was safe there. And he slept in his car.  He was woken, he said, by the angel Raphael who led him up the mountain. And at the top of the mountain he met Moroni and received the plates and interpreters and sword. And Moroni accompanied him down the mountain. And he took them. He had them until approximately the year 2012. They were taken back from him at that time because he did two things. He had translated the first book in the plates which is the Book of Lehi and gave that translation to the LDS church. And also he was reading in the plates about the destruction that was prophecies to come upon America and saw that destruction. He said it was worse than any picture that he saw of Germany after World War II. And it was so grievous that he thought at that point he thought that maybe perhaps Jader’s accusations were right and the pain of seeing that he broke the interpreters. And for those two reasons, Moroni took those back. He did not gain possession of them again until January of 2017 when Joni, Valdeci and Wagner and Mauricio ascended the mountain and learned to contact us. That is when they received the plates again.

Q. 5) Show of hands. How many of you speak with the tongues of angels?

A) Sam Gould – I want to answer that. Angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost. And if my testimony was pure you heard it.

Q. 6) Where in the scriptures does it say that Christ will read the sealed portion in his temple?

A) Gary Metzger – Those exact words I don’t believe I know where that would be. But I think there is something that addresses the issue which is found in 2 Nephi chapter 11 verses 130 through 132. Referring to the books as sealed. “For the book shall be sealed by the power of God, and the revelation which was sealed shall be kept in the book until the own due time of the Lord, that they may come forth; for behold, they reveal all things from the foundation of the world unto the end thereof. And the day cometh that the words of the book which were sealed shall be read upon the house tops; and they shall be read by the power of Christ; and all things shall be revealed unto the children of men which ever have been among the children of men, and which ever will be even unto the end of the earth.” And it is my understanding that the point of time in the earth when that will be done will be the time which those situations and conditions would be existent. It doesn’t say that Jesus read them in the temple, but it says they are read by the power of Christ.  And that certainly could be fulfilled by that.

Q. 7) Brother Samuel mentioned that we’re factions playing in the foothills. And brother Joseph said the ship of Zion is tattered and torn. How do we get from the foothills to Mount Zion?

A) Sam Gould – I’d like to address that. The instrument that we were given to take down the walls that Joe (Joseph) and I and others, the other workmen were with us, with that pure testimony were able to take down those walls. It cut through those solid stone walls. Some of them were intricate and developed for years and years. With great cleverness it cut through those walls. And as the workmen remove those walls, that whole heritage of Zion began to rise up on that mountain towards the summit. And that is what the promise is of this work of the Lord the second invitation.

A) Joseph F. Smith – I want to add to that.  As a people we have to repent and remember that we have fallen far short of what the Lord has asked the Restoration to do. We need to repent of our sins, go back and pick up the work that was laid down when the saints were driven out of Jackson county.

A) Gary Metzger – The Lord Jesus asked the people to remember the weighted matters of the law of mercy, judgement and faith. Thus remember righteousness, peace and joy, faith, hope and charity. Let’s learn to major in the majors.

Q. 8) I understand that the work of the translation has been started already. I’m looking forward to the completion of it and when it will be in our hands to take a look and read for ourselves and ask for ourselves to the Lord. The content of it and how it applies to our lives in building the Kingdom of the Lord. Any expectations on when the completion and printing might take place?

A) Bob Moore – Mauricio originally intended to keep working and translate in the evenings and on weekends. And he thought it would take a year and a half to do that. The night before all the witnesses left Cassianne came ( she’s cousin to Mauricio) and offered to support Mauricio’s family and asked him to quit his job so he could do that full time. He didn’t want to do that but he did agree to pray about it. The next day he went to work and he was dismissed from his job. He took that as a sign to accept the offer from Nelson and Cassianne and thought that it would take him about four months to translate. At the present time the plates are in danger. There were two individuals that showed up at his apartment claiming to work on Saturday on some telecommunication lines and then wanted to go into his apartment. He called the company and found out that they did not work on Saturday. He wouldn’t let them into his apartment, wouldn’t let them into the building. And he then notified them that he was calling the police. They fled and the magnetic sign that was on their vehicle fell off as they bounced over the curb or whatever. And for that reason he has given the plates back until he has found a secure place. He wrote me this morning and said that he is no longer in Caxias do Sul, which is the city that he was in. I don’t know when he will start taken those up, when he feels secure again. He will retrieve the plates and then begin. So it will be 4 or 5 months from the present time.

Q. 9) My question is for Bob. What you had said, really briefly, talking about we do need to come together and everything. Definitely resonated a lot with me because I know I am guilty just as much as anyone of letting our differences get to me and be too much of a distraction. And so, pretty much my question is: Would you maybe say it is more of like-mindedness that we need to be seeking more towards or just more of an acceptance of our differences that we need to be able to come to terms with to be able to go forward. Cause I know and we can all testify that when someone changes and when change actually happens in a person its a miracle in and of itself. And its going to be a pretty big miracle in order to be able to get us all to be able to come together and come on the same page with a lot of this. I feel like I heard a lot of advice already and tips on it from your other answering other questions, but I don’t know, I don’t know if there is anything you have said.

A) Bob Moore – I have two responses to that. First of in 1930 on February 19th, a Wednesday, Joseph Luff went to the Temple Lot church on the Temple Lot with a prophecy. Which he delivered during their prayer service. They were in the process of building the temple. And in that prophecy he told them that they would not complete the temple, several other things about it. Towards the end of that prophecy it says that judgment would smite the Lord’s people and there would be groups of people here and there come to Him in repentant prayer and the Lord would unite them. That’s a very poor rendering of that.

(You can find that here Joseph Luff 1930 prophecy. )

A: Bob Moore – The second thing is that I have stated in two previous times we really don’t know the nuts and bolts of how we can unify. The Lord promises he will unify the repentant. And I expect Joseph and I’ve asked Joseph and he has been asked by others. That he would take this as a matter of prayer and bring guidance as chief spokesman and as the spokesman identified in 2 Nephi chapter 2. And bring revelation to us so that we know specifically how we can unify.

Q. 10) We have another question from an online viewer, Barbara who asks, “Were you able to see and read a copy of the translation of the Book of Lehi which was given to the LDS?”

A) Brad Gault – No

Q. 11) First of all I just want to see if I understood that you said that Mauricio was led to the plates and uncovered them on a mountain in Brazil? Where did he come into possession of the plates, or were they just delivered?

A) Bob Moore – He went up a mountain, he was led up what they call a steep mountain. It is steep, I’ve seen pictures of it. And on top of that mountain Moroni delivered the plates to him. I asked him how he did that. And he simply pointed and showed that Moroni, whose feet weren’t on the ground standing in the air, pointed  into the open space with both fingers and opened, if you will,  a portal or cabinet in space and took them out and laid them on the ground. And then closed the doors where it was behind and gave him the plates on the top of the mountain.

Q. 12) The actual question was, does Moroni move the plates from time to time? In the Book of Mormon it talks about a hill with the records in a mountain where the last great battle took place. And you would understand that they were buried there. Joseph was led to those plates at a hill named Cumorah. I am not sure when it was actually named Cumorah in New York state. And so is it your understanding that Moroni moves them from time to time to the proximity of the person who is to be the translator or the servant of the Lord.

A) Bob Moore – I don’t know, I don’t know that anyone knows.

Q. 13) Joseph Smith Jr. relates that he received the plates, the interpreters and the breast plate. Why was the breastplate not received? Do you know?

A: Bob Moore, Brad Gault – No, Don’t know.

Q. 14) Mine isn’t a question, it is a hymn. And we as a people love our hymns. And it has been coming to me over and over. We limit not the truth of God. But we as a people have been limiting the truth of God. I am praying for my own testimony. And I want each of us to pray for our own testimony. And limit not that truth of God. From our poor reach of mind.

Q.15) To brother Joseph. At the time you received the plates. (or Bob). How did it happen?

A) Joseph F. Smith – We were taken into a room. And Bob and I were sat down and Mauricio and the three witnesses were there. Two of them went out and they came back in with a board that had something on it with a covering. And when they took the cover off, there were the plates. If you want to know how I felt. I couldn’t even get out of the chair. I was so overcome with the Spirit that was in the room. It just filled the room with a power beyond anything that I can explain. It took me a little while to get up. And when I did I asked them if I could hold them in my hands. And they handed them to me and I was able to turn the plates.

Q.16) I appreciate your brothers testimonies and the humility in which you shared and the cautiousness that you went down to Brazil with. My question is if I am understanding and I want to clarify and make sure I understand correctly. He first got these eleven years ago. And over this eleven year period of time, he also offered it or presented it to the LDS church. And they turned it down. And the Temple Lot church. And they turned it down. Is this correct? And why did they turn it down?

A) Moderator – I’m going to answer that for you. First, these gentlemen have not first-hand knowledge about that. And would not know the motivation of anyone that turned it down.  So I’m going to ask them to not even answer that because it couldn’t be anything but speculation. Sam do you have a response? – Then I’m wrong.

A)  Samuel Gould – Having been in the Temple Lot church, I was in the ministers meeting where we discussed it briefly. I believe it was back in 2014, it might have been 2013. But it was quite a few years ago. And the reason given at the time is that our budgets had already been allocated and so there were not really funds to expend and it would have been and expensive endeavor. And also the next statement was that it seemed like the story out of Brazil had changed over the three years, the three year period. And so for those two reasons, that’s to the best of my recollection.

A: Bob Moore – I’d like to add one thing. They were never offered to the LDS church. The plates were ( ? ), but never to the LDS church.

Q. 17) A while ago, I thought I heard you, Bob, say something about when you were talking about seeking direction that you would go to brother Joseph, as the person to do the praying for answers. Now I hope I remember that correctly. But I had heard that someone said that Brother Joseph was set apart to be a prophet. Is that true?

A) Joseph F. Smith – Over the past 23 years the opportunity to assume that position was offered to me at least three times, and I turned it down because God wasn’t there. This offer was made while we were in Brazil this last time and God was there and I could not turn it down. I was placed in a chair. I was anointed by brother Bob Moore and assisted by Gary and brother Mauricio gave the talk or the message. They told me I couldn’t use the word ordained. So I won’t. I was  designated, there you go, appointed. However that ordination is good only in Brazil. It is not valid here in the land of Zion until a confirming ordination is performed. 

Q. 18) I would like to say to all of us. This is not just these men’s responsibility that set before us. It’s our responsibility as individuals. And the Lord will hold each and every one of us accountable for His work in these latter days. And I have all of my life wanted to be a part of that work. And it feels so good I think that we might be a part of this work and His kingdom. Will you join with these men and your Lord and Savior to uphold the gospel.

Q. 19) Brother Tyler, I would like to know how you were selected to go down on that trip because I know there is more to your testimony and you didn’t share that today. So I would like to know how you were selected to go to Brazil, Tyler.

A: Tyler Crowell –  Well I don’t know other than I heard there was a question and answer meeting (at Zarahemla in October) and afterwards I saw and said hello to brother Joseph. And he asked me, ”Do you want to go?”  and I said, “I do.”

A: Tyler Crowell – So in 1986, I had hands laid on my head for a Patriarchal blessing. And during that time  I was told that; it was actually at the end of the blessing in a prayer asking the Lord to grant me the privilege of turning the pages of the sealed portion of the Book of Mormon.

Q.20) Debra asks, “How can he translate if he broke the Interpreters?”

A)  Bob Moore – When Mauricio ascended the mountain with the three witnesses on December 16th of last year [2017], Moroni appeared to them and Joni Batista gave an explanation of what he did. He took that stone which was in two pieces and turned around from them, and behind him, he said it looked like there was a furnace. He put his hand in the furnace, or in this object of which fire was coming out of. And they didn’t see what he did. And did that for I don’t know for how long, it didn’t seem like a long time by their description. And he turned around and the two pieces together again. And they were one solid piece. Sam did a thorough inspection of that stone and said it was molten and if he wants to add any information to that. But he repaired that. The second stone was not repaired, he couldn’t it was shattered. Moroni required him to get a new stone. It had to have a certain amount of quartz. Mauricio got that several times. Purchased something and finally had one that was acceptable. And then Moroni put engravings on that stone. That stone doesn’t do anything but blind his left eye. He looks through the molten stone with his right eye and the other stone with his left eye. And that allows him to see with his right eye the characters and the various phrases so he can translate that into Portuguese and English.

A) Sam Gould – One of the things I brought with me is lights and different frequency lights and stuff so I could do some proper inspection of what I considered was probably quartz. The stone that had been repaired looks like it is a Rose Quartz. And it has many impurities within it. Showing that it came from a molten process rather than a quarry process. I also put a light through it in order to determine in there was a interface in between that still existed once it had been melted together in the furnace. And there was a separation of my light bubbles showing that there was an interface in there. So those two pieces had been put together. So in my mind, I’m an engineer, so I look that things with those type of details just to verify the words that we had received. And they were verified in that regard.

Q. 21) Did our brothers in Brazil share any insights to Book of Mormon prophecies, particularly to the days that we live in now?

A) Bob Moore – Yes they did. Three of us stayed a little behind. I received an email from Joni and Valdeci asking me to stay longer. Which I did and Tyler and Gary also stayed longer. And they spent a little time telling us that devastation is coming upon this nation. And that’s the urgency of the hour in which we live and the need for Zion to rise from its slumber.

Q.22) Forgive me if it’s shown in the pictures. I haven’t seen them yet. But I heard you all talk about a pin in the plates. And that part of the way in which it was sealed. If it’s not, what was the fashion in which the unlocked portion was sealed. If you know.

A) Sam Gould – I’ll take a stab at it. It looked like there was a soft metal that was rolled. Like a roll pin. And it was attached to the top of the pin that’s on the sealed portion that will not be coming forward. And the other end was flattened. And so Mauricio just took a diagonal cutter and bent up those ends. And that whole pin was loose and turned. And then he was able to remove it.  Tyler do you want to talk about how the inside by the rings was sealed?

A) Tyler Crowell – We learned when we were there that (as was mentioned) after Mauricio translated the Title Page of the portion that’s going to be translated then the plates swelled. Before it was compact like one solid brick when Joseph and Bob were down there in October. When we were there, space had come in between the plates. We knew the pins were on the outside and those held it tight, but we didn’t know what was holding it tight on the inside on the ring side. Because they were tight on both sides. But we did see what I would describe as a metal twist tie similar to the pins that was on the ring side. So we are speculating that that seal had broken loose. But I believe the pins were also stretched when the plates swelled. So something caused those plates to separate and that space to occur. So that’s what we saw. 

Q. 23) I was wondering if there was any type of experience that went along with the blessing to actually take pictures of these items. And if I could hear from the right side that would be nice.

A)  Brad Gault – While they are debating, I actually invested in a better camera to take with me. I asked permission from Mauricio to take a few pictures. And he said fine, I don’t care what you do with it. I don’t need pictures. I’m not selling them for money. So it was just a more of a asking. He asked that we not take pictures of the characters. So we do have pictures of the men holding the plates for example. But you can’t really see the detail of the characters kind of thing. But it was just more of aaaa – I asked permission to do that. And it’s not like we have thousands of them. We just have a few. There was not experience per se it was just an inquiry that was made and we asked permission to do it.

A) Kelvin Hansen – I’d like to respond as well. The other men asked if they’re allowed to take pictures and the answer was yes with some restrictions. I personally didn’t want any sort of distractions, so I didn’t feel inclined to take any pictures. And in fact when the plates came out, I just stayed sitting down for quite a while because I decided beforehand that I could match up these plates with what I have read the description are in church history. And I could satisfy that the physical requirements, but nothing would tell me that these were the plates except for the Spirit of God. And so I stayed sitting for several minutes, quite a while, feeling for that Spirit. And I can testify that the Spirit was there and it kind of grew in me over time until I had a burning in my bosom. And I sat for a while enjoying that while watching my brothers examine the plates. That was an experience for me.

Q. 24) Yes, I was wondering if you guys could sort of expound on the scripture there in Ether 1:101 or 100 even. I am sure you are familiar with it. It talks about how the Lord would not send forth the sealed portion until the gentiles repent of their iniquity and become clean before the Lord, etc. Basically to that vibe there. It seems as though we all agree with that statement. But it seems like there is maybe a little bit of a contradiction there. With I know even Mauricio in his email echoed that without saying that in Ether. But that seems a contradiction to what has actually coming forth. So I just want to know at least to me, what are your thoughts on that and how do you rectify that in your minds. It is Ether 1:99-102, it all talks about the sealed portion and how it’s going to come forth.

A) Sam Gould – I’ll give a cut at that for you. That’s the vision of the brother of Jared. And it will not come forward until the faith of the saints are equivalent to that of the brother of Jared. And that is clearly not the case today. And so that vision will not come forward. But if you continue on with Ether to the second chapter, he addresses what happened in Brazil. And that is that he again talks about that portion that would not come forward and then he says, except by and by as it is wisdom in the Lord. And he closes he says that there would be given, that that person who did that, which is Mauricio would be allowed to have other witnesses there [2 Nephi 11:134]. And that is the eight that you see up here. Also that there would be three witnesses [2 Nephi 11:133, Ether 2:3]. And they are the three witnesses in Brazil. And then Moroni in the 5th verse clarifies for those of you do not believe that Moroni had the authority to give these Interpreters and plates to Mauricio to bring this portion or this part of this segment of the sealed portion forward. He says at that last day you will know that he had the authority to do that. We are not bringing forward the vision of the brother of Jared. Because it requires the faith of the brother of Jared. And that is in that sealed portion with that beautiful plate on top of it. What he is bringing forward are the greater things that Moroni said would come forth if we exercised faith in the Book of Mormon that we had received. If we pass that test of faith, then the greater things would come forward. And Joseph was told that he would have, that he had the ability to bring forth the sealed portion in his day. And it was referring to the record of Nephi, those greater things that would come forth. One of the stipulations said Joe (Joseph) gave me in selecting the witnesses that you had to be humble and you had to exercise faith. And that was the requirement that we had as witnesses. I believe that what’s coming forward is the record of Nephi, the Nephites. And there will be a number of books that come forward in that translation process. Just like the Book of Mormon, it’s a book of books. It’s not the 66 pages that the Book of Mormon came from. It is 42 pages. And so if you want to do some math in your head. You can do that. But it will be a significant amount of the greater things that the Nephites seen.

Q. 25) I just wanted to clarify if I understood correctly Joseph you said that you had hands laid upon you and you were set apart as a prophet. And if I heard that correctly I am curious to know, who requested that you accept that?

A) Joseph F. Smith – Joni and Valdeci were the ones that described to me what I was being offered. Mauricio was the one that made the statement.

Q. 26)  Have any of the witnesses seen any completed translation work from the plates? If yes, then can they share any details?

A) Tyler Crowell – So there was a question. Brother Sam asked the question was this a book of books because of the dream that he had and then Mauricio in answer to that he pulled up the translation of that first page of the sealed part he is going to translate. And he allowed us to see part of that. And I thought he said that he didn’t want to get that out, because there is a copyright issue. But I think it’s already been out. But we did see just a couple paragraphs of seven pages.

Q. 27) First of all brethren, thanks for being here and sharing your testimonies and for taking these questions from us. My question has to do with the adversary and to anyone that can answer this. In my mind there appears to be a clear pattern that we have in history, that whenever we have a people that are engaged in the Lord’s work, the adversary is hard at work. Job is a perfect example of that, who had everything taken from him – including his family at one point. We look back at yesterday which was good Friday. We remember what Christ did for us and the temptations that Satan put before him and the trials he put before him. We get back to Joseph Smith Jr. and the restoration and the Book of Mormon and the trials that he went through, matter-of-fact Joseph my great-great-grandfather served in Zion’s camp with Joseph Smith Jr. and was engaged in burying over a dozen saints who died of cholera until he himself died. And this is some tremendous trials and tremendous temptations that we hear about that Satan has put before people. I would think that an adventure like this which is huge, it doesn’t get any bigger than this. That Satan is going to be at work. Full steam ahead, after you guys in particular and Mauricio. Do any of you have any testimonies of that. Of how Satan has tried to temp you or trials have been put in your way to prevent this from coming forth.

A) Tyler Crowell – Yes, that’s always true. But the Lord is more powerful. And we have to put our trust in Him. And He has promised that he will show until the world that He is able to do His own work. And that His wisdom is greater than the cunning of the Devil.

A) Sam Gould – I would just like to say that the first thing is the fear of losing all your church friends that turn against it. That’s enough to break any man’s heart. It also, there are those that if Satan can create domestic disputes within families and break up families and things of that nature. There are financial things that take place. But the trials are never as large as the love that the Lord has for His people. And he will help us to overcome. Yes, even some will have to give their life in the future.

Q. 28) My question is for Kelvin. Can you describe the Interpreters. I know we have heard a little bit of it. But I want to hear from your point of view. Describe them. Give me the size, colors, you know. What did they look like.

A: Kelvin Henson – Yeah. Thank you for your question. There are two stones, they are kind of smallish. Smaller than the palm of your hand. They are, they kind of have five sides. Kind of like someone would draw a house maybe. And the corners down here are kind of cut off. There is one stone that is the older stone that was fused back together. The older stone is a little bit more shorter and wide. The newer stone is more narrow and tallish. The newer stone is a bit more clear than the older one. At least that’s how I remember it. But again there’s that fusing that took place and so maybe that obstructed the view of it. They are both transparent. I don’t know anything about rocks and stuff. But they look like quartz I guess. They have little tiny streaks of copper inside of them. And they have etchings around the border. And also etchings on the face in the middle of the stones.

Final Comment:

Joseph F. Smith – I would like to read something to you that I think is special. After four of the eight witnesses had left, Mauricio and the three witnesses taught those that remained what Moroni had told them on December the 16th, 2017. Valdeci and Joni had written it and had asked brother Bob to stay so that they could repeat Moroni’s warning. Vadeci and Joni first spoke to Joseph. Valdeci was spokesman, said directly to him, “You have the idea in you mind that you are to start a new church. But before you do that, you must give a chance to the saints in Zion to repent in order to fulfill all righteousness.”  What Moroni is saying is that you have been given an opportunity, and we have been given an opportunity to recover and reconstruct the original church. And for that reason, he did not want to start a new church down there until you were given the opportunity to repent and begin to go back and pick up the work that was laid down when you were driven out of Jackson county.

Moderator: I thank you all for coming this afternoon. I thank you for the spirit which you have shared. I have been very touched by the kindness you have shared with one another. The sincerity of your inquiries. As well as the sharing and response of our brethren here. Who have shared the information that they have gathered. I want to close with just a couple things. First is a scripture from 1st Nephi 4th chapter.

7 And it came to pass that after I had received strength, I spake unto my brethren, desiring to know of them the cause of their disputations.  8 And they said, Behold, we can not understand the words which our father hath spoken concerning the natural branches of the olive tree, and also concerning the Gentiles.  9 And I said unto them, Have ye inquired of the Lord?  10 And they said unto me, We have not; for the Lord maketh no such thing known unto us.  11 Behold, I said unto them, How is it that ye do not keep the commandments of the Lord?  12 How is it that ye will perish because of the hardness of your hearts?  13 Do ye not remember the things which the Lord hath said, If ye will not harden your hearts, and ask me in faith, believing that ye shall receive, with diligence in keeping my commandments, surely, these things shall be made known unto you?

I believe that is a challenge that we each face. That is the standard by which we are called to discern the Lord’s will.  We are coming to the conclusion of this gathering together. And it’s on a very special time when we celebrate the resurrection of Jesus Christ who is our master and our Savior. And in keeping with that thought, I wanted to share one very brief note and then we stand and I have asked brother Marlin Guin to offer the closing prayer for us.

The greatest man in history:  Had not servants – yet they called him master. Had no degree – yet they called him teacher. Had no medicines – yet they called him healer. He had no army – yet kings feared him. He won no military battles – yet he conquered the world. He committed no crime – yet they crucified him. He was buried in a tomb – yet he lives today.    His name is Jesus.

Transcription by R.A.  & Editing by R.C.